Medical Discrimination Part 2

I'm your host, Dr. Valda Crowder, also known as Dr. V. As a 30-year-old board certified emergency medicine physician, I've treated patients across four pandemics, one mass shooting in a category four four hurricane. So you are here in good hands. Last week we talked about medical discrimination and the impact that it has on individuals, families, health outcomes, and how sometimes it even can cause death. And we had an overwhelming response to the show. And so we decided to continue the conversation today. And today I have two guests who have personally experienced or witnessed medical discrimination. I thought that it would be important for us to kind of continue this conversation with people that have actually been impacted by this. It's important when you actually listen to their stories to kind of understand, you know, what did this really look like? How did it occur? What made them actually determine that something was wrong? What did they do about it? And what does that mean for me and my family if I happen to experience the same thing? A lot of times, you know, when people seek medical care, they expect to be treated with dignity and respect. And a lot of times that happens. But there are times when it does not happen. And people can be dismissed or treated unequally based upon gender, weight, age, disability, socioeconomic status, or even based upon what type of insurance they have. So if you want to join this conversation, we're going to be talking about this over the next 30 minutes. The call-in number is 1-800-450-7876, 1-800-450-7876. So get the phones and join in if you want to actually uh join in this conversation. And we'll be bringing in our guests right after news you can use. What the health is happening, that's the real question. It's also the name of my new podcast where you can literally get life-changing advice. What the health is happening is where you get the inside scoop on how all healthcare matters and empower you and your family with information from breaking news to all sorts of medical updates. What the health is happening is a dose of medical reality. It's myself and sometimes I interview some of my friends from the front lines of health care. It is on all swing platforms. So you can subscribe, download, uh, and comment. All right, news you can use today. We are going into the third week of our government shutdown. And I wanted to talk about, I know there's been a lot of conversation about health care premiums, but I wanted to talk about something that is not spoken about as much, and that is the impact of these cuts on infant mortality, maternal and infant mortality. So specifically, the Big Beautiful bill cuts out about$1.1 trillion out of Medicaid. A lot of people don't realize that 41% of the children born in America are born under Medicaid. Um, and it is a safety net and a safety net that is across this country, but it disproportionately impacts children that are born in the South. Mississippi, which has had a very, very difficult problem with a very, very high infant and maternal mortality rate, um, already declared a state of emergency last year, before the cuts, um, because their infant mortality rate uh went up. And infant mortality are children that die before one year old. So that's what I'm talking about. Children that die before one year of age. So uh that dramatically went up um after the overturning of Roe v. Wade, um, and they expect it to go up uh even further. So I actually wanted to kind of uh just bring this up as news you can use, because a lot of times people are talking about their health care premiums and how much they're going to pay. And I wanted to kind of bring to focus that there are actually children that are gonna die if we have a$1 trillion cut in Medicaid. Um, and we're gonna see that disproportionately in the uh Southern State. All right, today we have two guests who have experienced or witnessed medical discrimination. I would first like to bring in Belinda. Belinda, hi, how are you? Good morning, how are you? I'm doing well, I'm doing well. So Belinda is our guest, and she is a survivor of autoimmune disease and a creator of Invincible by Faith. She has over two decades of executive experience in major corporations, including AOL, Time Warner, and Derox, and is an award-winning businesswoman. So, Belinda, thank you so much for agreeing to join us today. Based upon your bio, uh, you know, it seems as if you had your health care journey started from when you were employed and had good insurance. Is that correct?

That is correct. I had good insurance. Um, I was fine. I didn't have any issues outside of allergies, and uh, but I had great insurance.

So tell me a little bit about what happened.

Well, I started getting really tired, and um I was on a trip and I noticed that my nail beds had turned gray. I was getting dizzy and achy. And so when I came back, I went to um the doctor. I went to my pulmonologist because I also was having problems with breathing. Okay. And he just said I had um uh uh bronchitis.

Okay.

And I kept getting worse. He gave me um an antibiotic, and ten days after that I coughed up blood. Mm-hmm. Okay, went back to him, and um you know, the story starts there. Right, right. Go ahead. I had a pulmonary embolism and I didn't know it. That's why I was coughing blood. Okay. And uh DVT. So uh I kept getting worse, and I ended up going through a lot of tests. Uh people at the ER wanted to get me admitted, but my pulmonologist said, no, she'll be all right. And it kept going. Um, I went back to him and he did x-rays and said I had lung cancer.

Okay.

And wanted to send me to a surgeon, but as it so happened, I couldn't get in. And uh when I went to the hospital a second time, that's when they found that I had the um cotton alone.

Okay, okay, yeah.

So then I just got sicker and started having problems with breathing and whatever, and then I was in the hospital for a week again. The problem is no one looked, they just overlooked the fact that I had uh a PE, and I saw that in the record.

And so PE means pulmonary embolism, just for um, yes, which is a which is the medical term for a clot in your lungs. Go ahead.

Absolutely, yeah. And they just overlooked it, and I saw where someone said, has uh pulmonary embolism been ruled out. And they just went over that, sent me home, and then I got worse. And a friend uh that noticed how I in the medical field that I wasn't breathing properly, and I went back in, and that's when I found out um that I had it and I hardly had any breast sounds.

Right.

Um it was a difficult um diagnosis. I understand that. I have systemic scleroderma, which is an autoimmune disease that um can it's overproduction of collagen and it can turn all your tissues uh stiff and hard. Right. So needless to say, I started that's why it's so important to be a self-advocate, a patient advocate for yourself, because at the end of the day, you're you know, you're the one that's gonna suffer the consequences. So I just ended up um pulling all the records.

When you say pulling all the records, you mean pulling all your medical records?

Medical records from the doctors, okay, every hospital I went to, every um drug I had taken, and uh I found out after studying and doing a lot of research that I had antibodies for uh systemic scleroderma, but it was overlooked. I was sent finally sent to a rheumatologist, right? And she said it was undifferentiated connective tissue disease, which is saying if we're not sure it hasn't differentiated into anything yet.

Right, right.

So after I pulled all the records and study it, I had to, you know, confront the doctor and and and you know, I asked us you're a medical professional, you I know how serious this disease is, and you know the sooner I can get uh help, uh the better my prognosis. And then that's when she sent me to uh a sclerodermal clinic. Okay but I can't in this environment, it's gonna be very important for people to learn how to research incredible sources, um, to empower themselves to know how to partner with their doctors, and then know sometimes it helps you know what questions to ask. Right. I almost died. I almost died if I hadn't have done what I did.

Now, now what made you think that like did you feel you were being discriminated against or did you feel that they were just not good physicians? Like how w w what were you what was your what was your feeling at the time and what is your feeling about it now?

Well, my feeling, well, I guess both. But the feeling then, when I was in the hospital, I think um my prime my pulmonary doctor just dismissed me and uh would not admit me to the hospital. And it was over a weekend. Right. Uh, even though I was coughing blood. Right. Um, they would not admit me. I think if things had looked different, I might have gotten a bed. Right. And it took, you know, time. I mean, it they told me I was a real woman because I really walked around for two weeks coughing blood, did not know I had that quot in my lungs.

Right.

So I do feel like I would have been uh taken more seriously. Um I would have, you know, a thorough exam would have been done. Um just because I didn't have the risk factors did not mean I did not have a black life because I had all the symptoms.

Right, right, right, exactly. Did you afterward did you change all of your physicians?

Uh yeah, I I well in the beginning I went to my primary care doctor and was telling her about it, and she told me that uh again I was dismissed. She told me I had the flu. I said, No, I know what the flu feels like is not the flu, because I was aching, my joints by this time were aching all over, um, hand swelling up and everything. And then she said, Well, maybe we should give you a little lexapro, uh, which is an antidepressant. I said, No, no, no. Um, and finally, she sent me to a rheumatologist. That rheumatologist said um would not make the diagnosis and said I had undifferentiated connective tissue disease. So at that point, you know, we have to go with our intuition too. If if you think something's wrong with you, you're probably right. I I felt and heard in my head, if you don't do something, you're gonna die. And that's when I went through all the records, all you know, all the records and everything from the hospitals to doctors, and uh I had to confront her. And I said, you know, you're a medical professional, right? She said, Yes. I said, and if it walks like a duck and crack like a duck is a duck, um, I know I have scleroderma, and the quicker I can get uh treatment, the better my prognosis.

Right.

So at that point I got sent over to where I should have been in the first place was the scleroderma clinic in Georgetown University Hospital.

Okay. All right. So you you wound up getting basically rid of all of your physicians. Basically. Sounds like and you just started you just started. Yeah, you started you started newly. I had to start fresh.

Right. Because um, I mean, I really almost died. If it wasn't for the grace of God, I would have, you know, the fact that I lasted as long as I did, but that day that I went to the second hospital, uh a friend of mine asked if I would go to her hospital. Um, I only wanted to lay down and go to sleep. And they told me if I had done that, I probably would not have gotten up.

Wow, wow. Well, this is an important message about advocating uh for yourself. I I want to bring in our second uh guest because she has also a story about sort of advocating and and and what what it has uh what it has looked like uh when she felt either dismissed or discriminated against. Our second guest is attorney Carthenia Jefferson. Attorney Jefferson uh not only has 20 years of legal experience as an attorney, but also has worked 30 years as a nurse. Um she's the owner owner of Jefferson Law Practice, and she has also been selected as visionary leader by the University of Alabama School of Nursing. Attorney Jefferson, attorney and nurse extraordinaire. Welcome to the Ask Dr. V Show. Thank you, Dr. V, for this opportunity. So tell me a little bit about start first with your experience as a nurse and tell me a little bit about what settings you kind of worked in and what sort of things you experienced in your nursing career.

When I was nursing primarily, I've worked in uh cardio uh cardiovascular settings, I worked in a nephrology setting, I worked in pediatrics, and I just saw quite a lot that was happening in these settings that I did not well I know for sure that was not right, especially when you see different persons, persons of color getting um treated differently than other persons. And so the healthcare disparity was great and just troubling.

Right. And did you have a way in your position as a nurse to say anything or do anything about it or interface in any way, shape, or form?

Uh yes, ma'am. As a nurse, I joined the Alabama State Nurses Association, also expressing concerns to management because I was a nurse manager uh at different facilities, and um talking to the doctors. I also talked to the patient and in pediatrics I talk to the uh patients paid. I try to always encourage persons, have someone to go with you to your doctor visits, because sometimes you get shocking news and you cannot think straight and make uh good knowledgeable decisions. So I tried to advocate, like I said, through my nursing association, through management, and to talking to the doctors and talking to the patients that were there or their family members.

Right. Now, what about what about personally? Tell me, have you ever felt either dismissed or discriminated personally in the medical setting?

Well, in 2009, I was diagnosed with uh breast cancer. I went for my annual mammogram and they did the uh the uh mammogram, then they did an ultrasound and they said, wait a minute, we're gonna have the doctor come in and talk to you. Uh my chest just started just aching so bad there because I knew it was not good news.

Right.

But after being diagnosed, I had a hematologist and oncologist speak to me along with my primary care physician. And the first uh uh procedure they did was uh um lung paper.

Right.

Then they said the margins were clear.

Right.

Uh then they did another lung paper because the margins were not clear, as they had said. I had gotten very sick. We did chemotherapy, we did radiation therapy. Um and the doctor that I had, the uh the surgeon, uh I told him I just can't cannot continue to be cut on uh year after year, worried about this, coming every three months for a mammogram, being every six months. And then it showed the cancer showed back up. I had triple negative breast cancer. And he wanted to do another lumpectomy. I and I told him, no, sir, I want a mastectomy. He said, No, ma'am, Miss Jefferson, I don't recommend that. You too young to get a uh mastectomy, and don't you want to get married? I said, I have to be alive first to get married. So I didn't I just didn't understand.

Um Like you couldn't get married after having a mastectomy.

Yes, yes, I just couldn't imagine. That's not true and knowing that this was uh triple negative breast cancer, right, and it came back so quickly, Dr. V.

Right, right. Triple negative is very aggressive, yes.

Yes, it was very aggressive. And so I uh had a a very serious conversation with him because like I told him, look like we're coming to across uh in the road.

Right.

You want one thing and I want something else, and I'm the the patient, and my insurance is paying for this.

Right.

He told me he was the uh over the department and that he knew uh he just advised me what he thinks is best for me. And I told him, Well, you uh doctor, like I said, we've come to a a crossroads and right now you since you don't want to do the surgery and have some uh some kind of feelings against it, I uh I'm just gonna have to terminate our sir your services.

So you fired your you fired your you fired wait, you fired your doctor too.

Yes, yes ma'am, I fired my doctor. I I said I didn't fire me, he fired the clip. Uh-huh. Because uh we was having serious conversation and I uh had been a nurse for years, so he knew I knew what I was talking about.

Right.

And plus I'm telling him, you know, this is coming back at a aggressively, uh not even a year. Right that it kept coming back, Dr. V.

Right.

So yes, I had to fire him, and then Dr. V, I had to fire the hematologist as well. Because she looked like she wasn't making good decisions. And I'm I'm trying to leave that some kind of way, I guess I felt like the what I had been seeing with other persons that didn't look like me, and what was suggested to me just was totally different.

Right, right.

So I had to terminate both of their services, or they really terminate their own services, and start afresh anew. And the the uh surgeon I had um chosen, the previous doctor, who's over the department, said, Well, I trained her. I said, Well, I'm sure she'll do a good job. So we we continued from there. She did the mastectomy, had reconstruction surgery, and therefore an uh another round of chemotherapy, which I was not happy with. But you, as um, Miss Brenda has stated, have to jealously advocate for yourself and have family members there who can think straight. Because my two sisters, they were there with me, uh, and they listen to the doctor. They ask questions along with myself asking questions. Don't be afraid to ask questions, even if you think it's a crazy question, because no question is a crazy question except the one you do not ask. That's true. Well, the other thing And that's what I did, and that's the reason I know I am alive today.

Right, and you are cancer free now for how many years? Yes, ma'am. I have been cancer free since 2010 for 15 years. Alrighty now. Alrighty now. Uh, you know, I think what is so important, yes, I think what is so important about um asking questions is I think that it's really important for people to write down questions before you get to the doctor's office. Because once you're there and you're in the room and they they they you know, we we come in kind of quickly. We're not necessarily anticipated because you got to go through all these different things of getting your blood pressure, your weight, all this other sort of stuff. And sometimes when we come in, you know, people are kind of like almost caught by surprise. So it's really, really important to have a list of questions. Um, and sometimes if you can even text message or email on some of these platforms your questions, you can say, you know, hey, I have an appointment on the 18th coming up in November. Here are the questions that I would like to get answered when I get there. So that that way your physician can also be prepared. I think it's really, really important because that dialogue is going to actually reinforce to you that you've actually got a good team or you got a team that you might have to fire like both of you guys did, right? So you you you you want to have an A team. You really, really want to have have an A team. Are there any other times, Attorney Jefferson, where you've seen um uh medical discrimination make an impact in people's outcome, health outcomes?

Uh yes yes, Doctor V. Um, as a nurse and as a friend of a colleague, I saw it uh at the hospital. Uh one of the nurses, her n her nephew, heart disease. And the way that they the treatment that they gave him and like I said, the treatment that they gave other persons were totally different. Her nephew did pass. My son, my son, 29 years of age, came home from Seamhao to take care of me. And then he passes in his sleep. After having a complete physical in June, he passes in July. I'm asking the doctor what happened?

Right.

What happened?

Right.

And he tells me, he he first he looks at me like, well, I don't know what happened. But I'm like, he you gave him a complete physical. But Dr. V, when I pulled the medical records as Benenda stated, sometimes you have to do for yourself and look at. I saw that he had complained of uh abdominal pain. He had complained of tiredness, and I saw where the the doctor had just uh told him to get some medicaments, so with his cholesterol was up.

Right, right, right. But hadn't hadn't run any tests. Any cardiac. Right. No tests. Any blood tests. Yeah.

So so so let me so so both. So you know I was just livid. Right. And you know, you you see it happen to other people, but you never think it'll happen to you. And I had stopped going to the doctor with him, because I used to always go, but he said, Mom, I'm 29 now. You just gotta stop going to the doctor with me. I'm not a baby anymore. But I wish I had gone to the doctor with him and heard what was going on. Dr. B, because he was very protective of me and did not want to worry. So I didn't even know that he was having any problems because he eat he ate healthy.

Right.

Then he died, and they put on the death certificate of curious sclerosis. Unbelievable.

At 29. Unbelievable. At 29. Right.

Yeah. 29 years of age. And then you were talking about maternal infid. I had a client. Um, she came to me after the fact. She was pregnant, went to this established facility five times, Dr. B. Went to the ER four times previously, complaining of pain. She had had another child, that child was about four years old, but she knew what having a child is like. Complaining of pain, dismissed in home, dismissed in home, dismissed in home, dismissed in home. Fifth time she could not feel the child moving. And she went to the um ER again.

Right.

Child stillborn.

And she had gone five times previously.

And she lost a lot of blood. So she almost died herself. So this uh maternal infant death, especially in the south, Mississippi.

It's a big deal. Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Oklahoma, it's a really, really, really big deal. I want to like just kind of give people like a couple of take-home points. So a couple of take-home points that I sort of hear here is one is, you know, get your medical records. And I think what's important is that everybody has a right to their medical records. The only thing they can charge you for is like the cop the cost of the disc or something like that. But they cannot charge you a thousand dollars for your medical records. They can charge you, you know, for the disc or, you know, some nominal fee. But everybody has a right to their medical records. The other thing that I'm hearing from what you guys are saying, if it looks like it's not working and it looks like you're not guys are not working as a team, get a medical team around you where you feel like you're working together. Is there anything else you want to share, sort of as some final points with our with our uh audience about what is important to really do in this sort of situation? Because a lot of people don't expect to be subjected to this.

Well, yes, that's the other thing. But Linda and I uh both have some kind of medical experience. But I I also want to say, get a second opinion. Don't be afraid to get a second opinion.

All right.

Don't think, well, I'm I'm gonna piss my doctor out. You trying to leave. Right, so think about yourself. And get it. And I think have patience and persistence. Thoughtful, be patient and be persistent about advocating for yourself.

Thank you. Belinda, did you have anything and then we're gonna cap up, recap, and and head out.

Okay. Yeah, I I just want the audience to think about one thing. Most people spend more time researching the car they're gonna buy or the telephone the phone that you're gonna get than their doctors. Research your doctors, research the hospitals when you go into. Sometimes you'll find out maybe you just keep searching for a different doctor. Being a patient advocate, self-advocating, can save your life. And in my case, it did, but um it's so important in this environment. It's gonna be less people that have insurance. You gotta make those appointments count.

Absolutely. Well, I want to thank you guys for sharing everything today. Um, this was really, really important, and you've given people some real good um take-home messages. You know, folks, that's a wrap. I I hope that none of you actually experienced what they did, but if you did, we gave you the tools today to deal with pressing health care questions. And please remember to download my podcast, What the Health Is Happening.